Javelin Through the Heart; Really?!?
Journal of Discourses 3:247; “Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, an put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands.” – Brigham Young, Salt Lake City, March 16, 1856
Romans 12:19; “Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
Matthew 5:38-42; “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.”
Since when has the Bible said or even implied that you’re the judge, jury and executioner?
Tell me, is this something you’d do in the presence of Jesus? If not then perhaps this isn’t something we should even entertain in our minds.
Please pray for those who believe in most of the things that Brigham Young taught but not all of them. Pray they’d open their mind and heart to the truth of what the Bible says in Deuteronomy 18:22; “When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”
I was taking note of Romans 13:7 today regarding what Mormons will say about their prophets. Many times I’ve heard them say he was only a prophet when acting as such…well the Bible tells us that God is not a God of confusion, but a God of peace and then read what Paul also tells us in Romans 13:7; “Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.”
Take in the first and last parts of this interesting verse.
“Render therefore to all their dues…” and then “honour to whom honour…”
Render means payment or action, to perform to provide. So giving honour to all their dues. If you’re not honoring all the things spoken by the leader of the Church doesn’t that contradict what it says here in Romans as well as what the Mormon prophets tell members to do; “follow the prophets and they’ll never steer you wrong”?
Haven’t you just done the very thing the prophets have done by putting yourself into the position of judge, jury and executioner?
And why would God give you mixed messages? How are you supposed to know when the prophet was just being a cantankerous Brigham Young and not giving you a message directly from God?
See also Psalms 106: 30 in which Phinehas is praised for executing judgment.
What’s the context of the verse Shem? It’s so important that we don’t just cherry pick verses but read the verses before and after to get the full understanding of what God’s trying to teach us.
Let’s back up and read from verse 28 to 31 in Psalm 106, it reads:
28-They joined themselves also unto Baalpeor, and ate the sacrifices of the dead.
29-Thus they provoked him to anger with their inventions: and the plague brake in upon them.
30-Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed.
31-And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.
What’s going on here? And what does it have to do with Brigham Young giving the ok for a man to murder his wife if she cheats on him? I really want to see if you understand what going on in the text.
-Melissa Grimes
Melissa
I notice that my first post was not allowed here. I find that interesting, as it was that post in which I made my main point. Psalms 106: 30 given as a supporting verse for what was said in that post.
So, I am forced to rewrite what I have already given, though I will do so in a different way.
Psalms 106 is a list of all the times that Israel provoked God’s anger, and recounts that mercy that God has extended despite these occurances. Each time it recounts the basics of what turned the wrath of the Lord away.
In the case of verse 30 the psalmist is referencing an event that is recording in Numbers 25. To understand the context of this passage in psalms it is necessary to understand this event.
Numbers 25
1-3
“And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.
And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.
And Israel joined himself unto Baal-peor: and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel.”
This agrees with what Psalms 106: 28.
4-5
“And the Lord said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel.
And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baal-peor.”
God commands the death of the idol worshipers, and thus his anger was provoked, as we read in Psalms 106: 29.
6-8
“And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;
And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.”
Here we have a description of what Phinehas did that Psalms 106: 30 refers to as executing judgment. This is also the only place where the plague is mentioned, referenced in Psalms 106: 29-30.
So, Phinehas executed judgment, which was counted as righteousness, when he slew a man who had brought a midianitish woman into camp.
What does this have to do with the thread? Everything.
The article may use the words of Brigham Young as a starting point, but the actual thesis, or argument that it presents is stated clearly in this quotation:
“Since when has the Bible said or even implied that you’re the judge, jury and executioner?”
This question does not limit its scope to a man catching his wife in adultery, but to all judgment, declaring that the Bible never even implies the right of man to act as judge, jury, and executioner in any circumstance.
As Phinehas did just that, have tried the man for his crimes, convicted him, and passed sentence in judgment, and is declared righteous for doing so, this statement is proven false.
Now, you can argue that the statement has a narrower meaning, but that would have to be a confession of pore wording on the part of that original article.
Even then, other examples can be given that apply to other situations.
For instance, in the case of murder, or even manslaughter, the revenger of blood (generally the closet male relative) had the power to act as judge, jury, and executioner, unless the slayer fled to a city of refuse (see Numbers 35).
I make no comment as to the words of Brigham Young, but rather show that the words that are used against him are said rashly, not having a true understanding of the scriptures to support them.
The Old Testament is a history of God dealing with His people so many of the accounts are that context. That doesn’t mean we have a license to do that today. If God allowed this to happen then, it doesn’t mean that He will allow you to do this, too.
The governments are supported in the Bible as long as they make decisions according to God’s Word; therefore, the death penalty is allowed as long as done fairly and not maliciously. Brigham Young’ s words are an important reminder of man doing a copy of history as you noted in the verses; however, he is not following the Word of God and is making these statements by his own decisions.
In other words, just because the history has this in the Old Testament, doesn’t mean we are allowed to do this. The blogs on LifeAfter are not done maliciously but to enlighten Mormans that their own history contains many errors which are unsupported in the Bible.
We understand that you have dufficulty seeing this but if you put aside the Book of Mormon, D&C, and other Mormon literature, as well as the KJV Mormon notes, and try to look simply at the Word of God for HIs message, you’ll understand this better.
We are not trying to “force” you to believe in our God. The Word in the Bible will be opened to you only if you look to God for this. And the Holy Spirit who sees your heart will come to you. We are only God’s tools and are used by Him to point out the false teachings of the Mormon Church.
You can pick and poke with us all you want but ultimately you’ll have to make that choice. You can keep hardening your heart like the Pharoh did to Moses or you can come to Jesus soley on His Word in the New Testament, which is the New Covenant.
If God allowed it in the past he has the power to allow it again, and thus to say that the Bible does not support, or even imply this is a a false statement. It really is that simple.
Now, I do not believe that we are to do anything contrary to the laws of the governments that God has allowed to be set up, and Brigham Young never taught this either. It goes contrary to the 12th Article Faith, taught by Joseph Smith and endorsed by Brigham Young.
People want to take individual quotes and try to use them to twist the true meaning of the words of great men.
This is the truth of the doctrine, and you can accept or reject it at your own peril.
When the church of God is also the Civil authority (as it was in the days of ancient Israel) then these things are allowed and are justified. the death penalty is proscribed for numerous crimes, and since God is unchanging than these penalties will always be in force when his law is the Law of the Land. When his law is not the law of the land we are to conform to that law in as much as doing so does not violate the law of God.
Brigham Young, in this quote, has said nothing contrary to this. He has simply stated that the death penalty is a just penalty for adultery. At this time they were living under the government of Mexico, and so to try to use US laws against this statement doesn’t work.
However, even in some states the laws gave this power to the husband. An example is Texas, which made it legal for a man to kill his wife and her lover if he caught them in Bed, as well as for a husband, father, or brother to kill a man who was caught in the act of raping a female relative.
So, the Bible give ample support that when the law of God is in full effect the saints have authority to execute judgment according to that law, and nothing Brigham Young said is contrary to this.
Now, I don’t care if your intent in malicious or not, but I will state that this doctrine as taught by Brigham Young is fully supported by the Bible. I have no need to discard the rest of God’s word just to understand the Bible. I am grateful that he has provided more of his word to clarify this great work.
Maybe it is you who should pick up the Book of Mormon, or the Doctrine and Covenants, and for once read it, asking God to reveal its truth to you, for in no other way can truth be learned.
Now, let us look at the quote from Brigham Young with a little more context around it.
“From what is at times said here, it might be inferred that every one who did not walk to the line was at once going to be destroyed, but who has been hurt? Who is about to be killed? Who is about to be taken out of the way? When this people have lived long enough upon the earth, to have the principles of life and salvation disseminated among them, and to have their children taught in those principles, so that they fully know the principles of eternal salvation, then let us or our children turn away from the commandments of God, as some do now, and I could tell you what will be done with them.
…the time is not far distant, but it will never come until the inhabitants of the earth, and especially those who have been gathered together, have a sufficient time to be educated in the celestial law, so that each person may understand for himself. Then if they transgress against the light and knowledge they possess, some will be stoned to death, and “judgment will be laid to the line, and righteousness to the plummet.” But people will never be taken and sacrificed for their ignorance, when they have had no opportunity to know and understand the truth. Such a proceeding would be contrary to the economy of heaven. But after we receive and understand things as they are, if we then disobey, we may look for the chastening hand of the Almighty.
…
I mention this to inform the people, that they may understand what they should do with regard to the law of God, and the transgression thereof. The law is very strict; and in this congregation there are men and women who, with uplifted hands to heaven, before the Father, the Son, and all the holy angels, made solemn covenants that they never would do thus and so. For example, one obligation is, “I will never have anything to do with any of the daughters of Eve, unless they are given to me of the Lord.” Men will call God to witness that they never will transgress this law, and promise to live a virtuous life, so far as intercourse with females is concerned; but what can you see? A year will not pass away before some few of them are guilty of creeping into widows’ houses, and into bed with the wives of their brethren, debauching one woman here, and another there. Do we enforce upon them the strict penalty of the law? Not yet. I hope their conduct arises from their ignorance…
You say, “That man ought to die for transgressing the law of God.” Let me suppose a case. Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, an put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands. But you who trifle with your covenants, be careful lest in judging
you will be judged.
Every man and women has got to have clean hands and pure heart, to execute judgment, else they had better let the matter alone.”
It is obvious that your understanding of Brigham Young is quite flawed, and that he did not intend this law to be in effect until a much later time, when men fully understand the law of God and there are truly just men to execute the judgment (like Phinehas).