Mormonism & Godhood
Journal of Discourses 10:251; “…it [Mormonism] embraces all truth, wherever found, in all the works of God and man that are visible or invisible to mortal eye. It is the only system of religion known in heaven or on earth that can exalt a man to the Godhead, and this it will do to all those who embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts.” – Brigham Young, October 6, 1863, Salt Lake City
Isaiah 44:6; “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.”
Brigham Young’s astute observation should be an indicator to those seeking to know and please the One and Only God there is something wrong with the LDS theory of who God is!
First of all there’s the issue of lying on the part of Brigham Young. Mormonism isn’t and wasn’t even in the days of ol’ Brigham, the only religious system that afforded godhood to its followers. Spiritualists and the Native Americans held tight to a polytheistic view of the divine.
Secondly, why would you want your “religion” to embrace anything manmade?
Thirdly, appreciating and desiring the position of being exalted to a “godhead” isn’t indicative of having a humble spirit or heart. It’s rather difficult to truly worship and/or honor God fully when you believe you can become just like He is. That’s what got Adam and Eve kicked out of the Garden of Eden!
Last and most importantly, if Mormonism embraced all truth, they wouldn’t have lied about their participation in polygamy, Joseph Smith wouldn’t have committed arson by burning down the Nauvoo Expositor, and its leaders wouldn’t continue to lie to its adherents about the Bible!
Also important to note is what Mr. Young said about Mormonism being the only religion offering godhood to mankind. He’s obviously made it abundantly clear they aren’t a Christian denomination.
If only you understood what we really teach. Let me go over this, point by point.
>>Brigham Young’s astute observation should be an indicator to those seeking >>to know and please the One and Only God there is something wrong with >>the LDS theory of who God is!
What do the scriptures mean when they say that we will become “joint-heirs with Christ”? How can we receive anything less that what Christ has received and still be considered “joint-heirs”?
>>First of all there’s the issue of lying on the part of Brigham Young. >>Mormonism isn’t and wasn’t even in the days of ol’ Brigham, the only >>religious system that afforded godhood to its followers. Spiritualists and the >>Native Americans held tight to a polytheistic view of the divine.
What you say would be true if Br. Young had actually said what you say. But he didn’t. What he said was “It is the only system of religion known in heaven or on earth that can exalt a man to the Godhead, and this it will do to all those who embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts.” Nowhere is there a claim to be the only religion that offers this. But he does claim to be ‘the only system of religion..that can exalt a man to the Godhead.’
>>Secondly, why would you want your “religion” to embrace anything >>manmade?
Since you don’t explain what you mean by this, I am not able to respond.
>>Thirdly, appreciating and desiring the position of being exalted to a >>“godhead” isn’t indicative of having a humble spirit or heart.
Since we talk so little about this concept, your claim is not valid. Our main topic is how the Atonement can be made active in our lives so that we can obtain all the promises that Christ has made to us. If we talk of anything more, then it is just an appendage to the Atonement. Even this subject, which I have not talked about in Church in more than 30 years. Too concerned about my own salvation to worry about something that is not even in the far distance.
>> It’s rather difficult to truly worship and/or honor God fully when you believe >>you can become just like He is. That’s what got Adam and Eve kicked out of >>the Garden of Eden!
On this subject, here is what Satan said:
Gensis 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
There are two points that Satan made. One is a lie and the other is the truth. The first point was the lie. They would die. The second point was the truth, they would become as the Gods knowing good and evil. He didn’t say they would become gods but would become as the gods knowing good and evil.
And here is God confirming what I have just said:
Genesis 3: 22 ¶And the Lord God asaid, Behold, the bman is become as one of cus, to dknow good and eevil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Now we know that Satan lied when he said that they would not die, and we know that he was telling the truth when he said they would become as the gods because in verse 22 God himself confirms that.
So your claim that Adam and Eve were kicked out for thinking they could become like God is incorrect, as testified to by God himself.
>>Last and most importantly, if Mormonism embraced all truth, they wouldn’t >>have lied about their participation in polygamy,
What has embracing all truth have to do with lying about polygamy? Did Abraham embrace all truth and yet lie to Pharoah about his wife?
>>Joseph Smith wouldn’t have >>committed arson by burning down the >>Nauvoo Expositor, and its leaders >>wouldn’t continue to lie to its adherents >>about the Bible!
Joseph Smith did not committ arson. The decision to destroy the printing press of the Nauvoo Expositor was a decision by the Nauvoo City Council and the Sheriff carried it out. Again you are incorrect.
>>Also important to note is what Mr. Young said about Mormonism being the >>only religion offering godhood to mankind. He’s obviously made it >>abundantly clear they aren’t a Christian denomination.
Was Anathasius a Christian? Wasn’t he the one who said, “God became man, that he might show us how to become God.” If Anathasius was not a Christian, then maybe no one after him was either. How about the Greek Orthodox? They also teach that man can become God, just like God said in Genesis.
Marvin
Don’t bother Marvin. World poverty could be solved if people could be fed the lies from this website. It’s unfortunately an obstacle to bring people to Christ.
Brian and Marvin- Tell us why you are here? Are you really interested in knowing the real Jesus or are you here as a ‘soldier’ for the LDS to defend the church? If you are just here for defense, you’ve come to the wrong website. Life After Ministries helps people to know who the real Jesus is and the Life that they can have After finding who Jesus is.
The people here, especially Michelle, are accustomed to the LDS ‘soldier’s’ coming and just nitpicking away at the points that are made. We know that it is first ‘shock and then awe’ that this information is available. Their first reaction is: Liars! We know this. Michelle did this too, before she found the real Jesus of the Bible.
Now, speaking of the Bible, The correct way to interpret it is from other passages to explain the one you are reading. If it isn’t in the Bible, it isn’t what God has ‘breathed’ in his Word. Michelle has done 20 years of research, and still does, both of LDS materials and outside materials. If all you ever have known is LDS works and their KJV of the Bible with Mormon notations, it’s time you look outside your church.
They don’t let you ask pertinent questions. Try it: Go and ask at your stake where the financial report is to read? Good luck…I can think of many other questions to ask and when you start looking for transparency in anything there, you’ll be asked to leave.
They don’t let you know the truth on the ‘Manmade’ rules of law that are in the Mormon church. There is nothing about the temple rites that is Biblical. It is all manmade based on a number of things in further detail here on this site or on the others listed in the sidebar. There is no Gospel in the LDS; it is Law and Gospel mixed and confounded.
Now, Michelle is very patient and is will to help you with your concerns but no one here has the time for on-going, nitpicking on a particular point to someone acting in defense of the LDS. So let us know, both of you: WHERE DO YOU STAND?
Garden,
I am here to correct error and nothing more. I have studied your kind of literature for more than 30 years and remain firm and immovable in my faith. You won’t convert me nor do I expect to convert you. That is where I stand.
Now that I have answered your question, will you take the time to address my concerns as I have posted them? You seem to give Brian the attention he wanted, all I’m asking is that you address my points. After all, I have kept to the topic to the OP.
Marvin
PS. could you ask WordPress to help you correct the problem with the notification emails? I’m still not getting any.
Marvin –
If you’re not here to learn something new about your faith or the Christian faith and you’re only here to argue, then in all Christian humbleness, we ask that you go somewhere else. If you’re here to “correct” or “chastise” then you’ve come to the wrong place. I’m fair in my analysis with my posts – I give proper LDS references when I compare them to the Bible. If you don’t agree that’s sad but this is my blog with my rules.
I feel bad for you and your friend I just booted off yesterday, but I’m not going to allow back and forth bickering to take place on this blog. It doesn’t glorify the Lord and it doesn’t serve anyone any purpose here.
There are lots of other blogs that allow debating, but this isn’t one of them.
If you have sincere questions and would like to discuss them in a rational manner without name calling then we’re here for you. As I told Brian I know the confusion and I sympathize with the anger inside when people don’t totally agree – I reacted the same way as a Mormon. The anger isn’t going to carry on here. Calling us names and being disrespectful is far from Christ-like wouldn’t you say?
There are a lot of Christians on this blog who will be more than happy to answer theological questions if you have any or if you’d want to ask why Christians believe what they do about certain things. The Mormon male priesthood authority attitude doesn’t float here.
I’m still looking into the problem you mentioned.
Michelle
Ha ha!
You misjudge me. I have no intent of changing your minds, and frankly, this blog has no chance of changing mine. I know plenty of Christians- Protestants, Catholics, Mormons, etc.- that in general are honest people trying to be good representatives of Jesus Christ.
This blog, on the other hand, has a systematic problem with dishonesty, which drives people away from Christianity. Even atheists know it’s wrong to be dishonest! The lies on this blog aren’t simple disagreements about theology or interpretations of scripture, but factual, easily verifiable falsehoods. Even other anti-mormons deny things you claim are truths. I’ve tried to point some out in the past, but you change nothing.
Now imagine- if an atheist stumbled upon this blog, got excited about Christianity, but then found out the “Christians” were lying to him…
Excuse me?
Your understanding of the word liar is incorrect Brian. Just because you disagree with us it doesn’t mean we’re liars. There’s absolutely nothing on this blog that I’ve lied about – nothing.
I remember what it was like walking in your shoes. I hated it. I hated being so angry and defensive all the time. You can ask any of my Christian and non-Christian friends that I associated with before I left Mormonism and they’ll all agree that I was always in a raunchy mood, always ready to attack verbally and unable to feel empathy for outsiders because I had deemed them liars and the “whores of Babylon”. I was better than all of them because I had been “born in the covenant”. I was a multi-generational Mormon from Utah no less.
I know full well the superiority complex and the overwhelming urge inside of me to show everyone how much better I was than those around me. Surprisingly my rough exterior wasn’t reflecting my inner thoughts and feelings. It was dark. I hated being in a bad mood all the time and hated being so flippant with others. I wanted to be the humble person Jesus told His followers to be and I had no idea how to go about doing that because the Holy Spirit didn’t reside inside me at that time.
Now you can have your smart-aleck responses all you like, but your behavior speaks volumes to those reading this blog. Your demeanor is what I’m always referring to when I say my heart breaks for the Mormon people. Do you really believe this is how Jesus behaves? Is your interaction with us indicative of being “Christ-like”?
You show me with definitive proof where I’ve lied and I’ll publicly apologize and remove the bogus information. Disagreeing with my point of view does not make me a liar.
With all Christian humbleness, we’re praying for you Brian and your friend Marvin as well. We pray the Lord opens your eyes to the truth – especially on this all important General Conference weekend when the church locks their doors so you can go hear the prophets.
With Love in Christ;
Michelle
1 Cor. 1:18
Brian on 04/05/2013 at 5:31 pm
“You misjudge me. I have no intent of changing your minds, and frankly, this blog has no chance of changing mine.”
Only God can draw a person to Him;we present items for you to do your research on.
” know plenty of Christians- Protestants, Catholics, Mormons, etc.- that in general are honest people trying to be good representatives of Jesus Christ. ”
You don’t know Christianity. Mormons are not Christians as they do not believe in the Trinity. Their definitions of the Father, Son,and Holy Spirit are not the same.
“This blog, on the other hand, has a systematic problem with dishonesty, which drives people away from Christianity. Even atheists know it’s wrong to be dishonest! The lies on this blog aren’t simple disagreements about theology or interpretations of scripture, but factual, easily verifiable falsehoods”
Have you taken a poll of others? Where are the lies? Sounds like the typical atheist rant…
“Even other anti-mormons deny things you claim are truths. I’ve tried to point some out in the past, but you change nothing.”
We are not anti-Mormons but anti-Mormonism. There us a difference. Are you a self-appointed expert here? Your purpose for being here is not to find out and do your research but as a troll.
“Now imagine- if an atheist stumbled upon this blog, got excited about Christianity, but then found out the “Christians” were lying to him”
Typical of many ex-Mormons,and sad, is that when leaving the LDS the believe all Christians lie, and and become atheists. Go do your research and if you ever want to come back with an open mind to learn, that will be a better attitude. With your closed mind it is impossible to have a nice learning discussion. You can rant on the atheist sites with others.
“You show me with definitive proof where I’ve lied and I’ll publicly apologize”
Serious?!?
You’ll honestly correct false information?… cause up til now I’ve seen several times where you have been shown proof and, instead of correcting it, you criticize the informant (like you did with me).
Here’s one- You claim on that Joseph Smith killed two members of the group that attacked and killed him in Carthage jail. Accusations of murder are serious things to throw around lightly, especially since that rumor was disproved long ago.
If and when you correct this dirty lie, I’ll give you another one.
This will be your last time commenting on this blog if you use vocabulary in the manner you’ve done so with this post of yours. I retrieved my information from the LDS Church. Therefore, if it’s a “dirty little lie” it came from your organization. I’ll apologize for the incorrect info if/when they post they’ve erroneously posted theirs. In addition to their info on the two other deaths the eyewitness accounts and newspapers will also have to retract their information as well.
Last time Brian. Remember, if you can’t be nice you can’t post here.
I post all the info straightforward from the LDS Church. If you don’t like it then remember it’s the Church you have the problem with, not me.
Michelle
What are the names of the two people that died?
Look it up – I already supplied the info.
I did look it up… years ago. John Wills, William Voras, and William Gallaher were all injured during their murderous attack. While there were some initial rumors that two of them had died, (they ran away because their injuries gave them away as part of the illegal mob), those rumors were discredited over 150 years ago! You are still lying!
Ready for lie #2?
you know what? Those are refuted as well so now we’re at a standstill and I am done with your rudeness. You are banned.