Life After Ministry

We’re changing things up a little today and in lieu of the Mormon Dilemma we’re posting some of the latest correspondence we’ve received here at the ministry.

I’m borrowing from Oswald Chambers’ devotional for March 18^th. For this day Mr. Chambers asked the question –

‘Am I forming the mind of Christ, Who never spoke from His right to Himself, but maintained an inner watchfulness whereby He continually submitted His spirit to His Father?’

In April 1990 Joseph Wirthlin delivered a speech at the LDS General Conference on ‘Personal Integrity’. One of the things that struck me was his example of Joseph Smith being an example of someone who had great personal integrity.

In all the research and subsequent posts I do, I’m often faced with the sad reality of what Smith left behind. The haphazard leadership model the Church employs today is a legacy none should be proud of, yet they’ve adopted this less than stellar standard believing and pretending it’s to be admired. Allowing emotionally, and mentally distraught men to be in positions of power is abusive to not only those who suffer from such anomalies, but also for those under their direction.

Tragically, the leaders’ life examples are parroted by those under them and we as Christians are the recipients thereof. Some of the things Mormons say and do today break my heart as I read their e-mails and listen to their phone calls. I’m listing a few of the latest here as a call for prayer! Remember, this isn’t about you or me, this is about the powers and principalities of the air as Paul told us in Ephesians 6:12.

Also remember Oswald Chambers’ message about the keys to the missionary message. It’s not about you, or me, and it’s not even about Jesus’ kindness. The key is to preach 1 John 2:2. PTL!!

‘And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.’

Dear Sister Michelle,
I am Joe ____ and my wife is L_____ ____. It’s about to be 10 years that you assisted us in leaving or better say have our exit letters. As well as _____ got his too. I want to thank you for your help. Yes we did lost all our friends there but I am happy for that. After that we never got a knock at our door or a phone call to come back. Praise The Lord!!!
God bless your ministry
Brother Joe _____

c. howard Submitted on 2015/03/16 at 4:13 pm

Man, do you have this reference to Joseph Smith wrong about blacjs. Jodeph openly gave tge priesthood to at least 2 black members if tge church in the early 1840s in Nauvoo, Illinois. He also gave a beautiful horse to one of them to sell snd use the money to buy his family out if slavery.
You guys are never factual, just wishful thinking and a bunch of out-of-text quotes.
Pretty pathetic!

SQ Submitted on 2015/03/12 at 11:51 pm

You are wrong on so many levels. Why do you feel the necessity to attack others’ religions in order to validate your position? Why do you use the Visiting Teaching messages as your “jumping off point”? So many assumptions and misconceptions. So much contention. So sad that you can’t promote the love of the Savior.

Ryan Submitted on 2015/03/10 at 3:50 am | In reply to brian.

Great response Brian, the lds church is the fullness of the gospel, the only church with prophets and apostles, temples like king solomons temple. Keep the faith, never surrender

Jaka Submitted on 2015/03/09 at 1:35 pm

Each to his own. Quit judging because you make All of us Christians sound like bigots! Pray for yourself and worry about your own salvation.

Gilberto Velazquez Submitted on 2015/03/05 at 12:28 am | In reply to R Rubins

Poor Mr. Baker He claims of have been in the church for 30 years then been in the position of Bishop but he then claims that he did not knowing the teachings of the church and tit’s doctrines besides he claims he came to know the real jesus from the bible , very interisting lies did not he read the bible before? where was he all this time? to be withdrawn by a guy that asked him if he know that joseph smith had done more than jesus christ. He lies in this again if you check the comment about it made by john Taylor you will find that it reads “Joseph Smith, the prophet and seer of the lord. Has done more. save jesus only, for the salvation of Men in this world,than any other man that ever lived in it” the full comment is found in Doctrine and covenants 135:3 and registered in the history of the church volume 6 from pages 629 to 631 then he goes on to say that evangelicals know more than Mormons about the Mormon doctrine or that we don’t know what we don’t know what a dishonest person that’s why he is out of the church to begin with for dishonest did he not? he just admitted to have lied to a young man now he claims with arrogance that he was in a high position as a Bishop Bishops are no more than a regular member vested with there position of Bishop , nothing special as he claim nor the stake high council either so don’t let him presume to you guys . then he goes on to diminish the line of authority from God( Priesthood) has he ever asked him self under which authority was he re baptized in the christian community , who ordained the minister who baptized him or where did the minister got the priesthood from aren’t evangelicals apostate Catholics? with out offense that’s what the Catholics considered them as, now did he forget that the catholic. he totally forgot the restoration of the priesthood . Now if he denies the restoration of the church (the LDS church) then he must admit that the church of JesusChrist . the original church never fell away from the truth and the true church would be the Catholic church not the protestants under which he got re baptized he is lost from which ever angle that he argue. he is a liar and that you will see eventually.He lost touch with the spirit of the lord Jesus Christ for disobedient, ignorant of the doctrine and for been too bussy as he states and above all for pride full lossing the focus forgetting his relation with the lord jesus Christ . i don’ blame him i have gone thru similar things as he went thrugh i left the church because i stopped focusing on Christ, started criticizing the churh and it’s people and begun doughting about the doctrine and after a miserably period i was humbled by God so researched all church doctrine an gained a big conviction but i was heading the same direction as Lee . so i guess instead of he openig his eyes he got blinded just like Judas who once walked with Christ , no doubt about it . please make sure Le Baker Receives My comment Thanks.

Gilberto Velazquez Submitted on 2015/03/05 at 12:56 am | In reply to Jim.

sorry for all the mistakes in the writing i’m doing it too fast any way the reason i came back to church and i di not even considered joining other group is because i found that the true church can not be fount anywhere else but the lds church, and that because of the apearences of Angels to me while i was fighting the church, and because i researched all the the history of it and not only that i went through all the history of Cristianity and found no solid Fundaments to claim that the original church of jesus christ continued on earth after the death of the apostles, i researched the protestants the Catholics doctrines and concluded that in fact the only thru church with out argument was and is The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints so i had to give up my pride My weaknesses i saw Angels if some one doubts that’s fine with me but they exist and communicate with humans but by the same token the Devil visited me several times just in case that you are thinking that i needed to try the spirits ,, there was not need for that i experienced the big difference from one to another . day and night difference.so here i stand a 30 year convinced latter day saint not blinded just by feelings in the bosom but a true researcher so. ex bishop baker watch out test the spirits if you still have some strength left o hope the moderation of the site permits my comments as well as the other peioples

jaqueline Submitted on 2015/02/26 at 12:52 am

You are a deluded self righteous douchebag

Melinda Submitted on 2015/02/26 at 12:42 am

I Think you are wrong to assume the previous Mormon’s comment comes from a juvenile Mormon. I am a Mormon and was born in 1975. I think your problem is you were raised as a UTAH Mormon. There is a huge difference between being raised Mormon is Utah and being raised utside Utah. I can say this because I was raised outside Utah but have lived here for 20 Years and I have lived In Provo, (graduate f BYU) SLC and now reside in Northern Utah. There is a pronounced difference in how people in Utah are raised and there is also a very pronounced difference in how jack Mormons behave from Utah as opposed to Jack Mormons from others areas. I believe you are bitter because you experienced issues that are common to how Native Utah residents tend to behave. I actually feel sorry for those that are raised here because it is still hard to live here and not be LDS. My father was born and raised here and I have never been taught that anyone being born a darker or olive skinned was a sin. An my parents were never opposed to me marrying and having children with someone of another race (gasp he is dark). I have, however, experienced racism here while living in Provo. I just think of those people as ignorant. You have a right to your feelings and experiences, people here can be some of the most deluded people have encountered. But I have also met and befriended those from here that are the most genuine, wonderful people. You should not assume that because someone is an active member it means they believe in racism and all the other stuff you spouted off. To each their own you should forgive people their ignorance but should also let people believe what they want. You say you’ve found Jesus but I think you need to tell yourself that because if you really did then you would still have the need to bash and criticize others you don’t have to believe but Jesus would want you to let go of bitterness and recognize men are just humans and therefore, are not perfect. Let it go and you will find true peace and happiness. Let others believe what they want and what makes them feel good. And keep in mind where you were raised and that Utah is better than it was when I moved out here. It is getting better, but you also have to take responsibility for how you criticize because you are doing what was done to you……..

Jujubee Submitted on 2015/02/16 at 2:29 am

I find the spirit of this blog is one of truth & love, to help others. Christians have an obligation & a desire to spread the TRUTH & good news of (biblical) Christ. LDS missionaries go door to door sharing their beliefs, regardless of the faith of the people they are talking to, & that isn’t a problem, but if someone tries to do the same & witness to them that is somehow hate? Moving on, it is my experience, you cannot present a Mormon with anything that might go against their faith or they just chalk it up to persecution or a spirit of contention, or just say we will know by their fruits. I haven’t found anything to help me deal with this aspect, other than to never be argumentative & to speak in love. Do you have any tips you could share relating to this specific problem? Thanks in advance & God bless!

Jujubee Submitted on 2015/02/16 at 6:24 am

When your organization claims to be the one true church & condemns every other faith, it’s going to be investigated. Truly boggles my mind that somehow it is okay for Mormons to try and convince everyone else that their beliefs are wrong, yet if they try to witness to your about their faith, or the unsettling questions they have about yours- suddenly it’s born of hate & persecution. Furthermore, this is a site specifically about Mormonism, hence Mormonism being the targeted organization. I agree, though, everyone should read the Bible. Mormon, Catholic, Protestant, whatever- read the Bible for yourself. Read the Book of Mormon. Take notes as you go. The Bible does not support LDS doctrine. Heck, the Book of Mormon doesn’t support LDS doctrine!

wcs1985 Submitted on 2015/02/13 at 3:17 am

Mormons are aware of the fact that Joseph Smith was a free mason and that there are many similarities between Masonic symbols and Temple symbols.

You keep saying that Masonic symbols are of the devil and pagan. Did you know that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln participated in Masonic ceremonies?

wcs1985 Submitted on 2015/02/13 at 3:32 am

Where in the world did you get this info? These are not facts. These are your opinions. You clearly have never been to a LDS church meeting before.

1) I don’t even know what you’re talking about
2)No Constitution of beliefs? Articles of Faith. Look it up.
3) No cross because Mormons do not focus on the physical death, but the Atonement of Jesus Christ, which enables us to repent and return to live with Him.
4) Secret Oaths? Swearing in? The “oaths” are covenants with God to serve and obey him. They are “secret” because they are held as sacred covenants, just as many prophets of old made sacred covenants with God.
5) Person shuns family? Where are you getting this information?! Family is the most important thing in the LDS community.
6) The LDS church does not hold baptism for the dead as the basis of their belief. The BASIS of their belief is faith in Jesus Christ, not doing baptisms for deceased ancestors.
7) Because we all speak in tongues, right?
8) Mormons are the least argumentative people out there. LDS Missionaries are specifically trained not to provoke arguments.
9) Mormons have been persecuted. It’s not a belief, it’s a fact. I.E: Joseph Smith being shot multiple times by an angry mob. Early members’ houses being burned down. Is that not persecution?
10) Scriptures are always subject to private interpretation, that is why we are all encouraged to read our scriptures in private and pray about what we think about them.
11) This is because a fundamental part of LDS Faith is that God continually speaks to his children, and gives us all the instruction we need for our time specifically.
12) Jesus’ atonement is everything in our faith. Without it, we cannot live in Heaven. Works and ordinances are important, too. In the Old Testament, Abraham and Moses had to make sacred covenants with the Lord. LDS members make similar covenants. Baptism being one of those. Even Jesus Christ needed to be baptised.
13) We believe that everyone will have a chance to go to heaven.
14) Because we believe that God continually speaks to his children through revelation. Why wouldn’t he? Do you believe that God will give us ONLY the bible? I sure don’t.
16)”Dietary?” Avoiding alcohol or addictive substances if for our well-being and because it is obviously displeasing to God. Had anything good ever come out of addiction or alcoholism?
17) Kate Kelly. John Dehlin. Look them up. In addition, Mormons are encouraged to ask questions.
18) That’s what Prophet’s in the Old and New testament did. Why couldn’t God do that today if he wanted to?

mormon mom Submitted on 2015/02/13 at 3:06 am

Hi! I was born into the LDS Church, but went inactive for about ten years before coming back to the church. I can assure you that many of the claims – yes, claims, because that is all they are – above, are untrue.

Firstly, with the photograph up top. The image on the right is not a photograph. Obviously.

Second, you claim that nobody knew of Joseph’s first vision, because it wasn’t printed. There are actually numerous diaries of early members that Joseph publically testified that he saw God and Jesus Christ. He was not hiding anything. Immediately after the first vision, in fact, he told all of his family.

Thirdly, you say that the Church backpeddled and said that Joseph actually saw Nephi, not Moroni. The mormon church has always taught that it was Moroni that Joseph Smith saw in 1823, appearing by his bedside.

Fourth, many members of the church are in fact aware that Joseph Smith was a free mason. Many Masonic symbols are similar to those of Mormon symbols. I was taught in a class at the LDS institute of religion that Joseph Smith searched for gold, because God told him where he might find it. Treasure-digging was not uncommon in that time.

Fifth, there is not proof that Joseph Smith shot anyone. Just the testimonies of those who hated him, which are not all reliable.

Sixth, almost every Mormon is aware of the fact that Joseph Smith had over forty wives.

Lastly, it is not taught in the LDS church that in order to make it into the Celestial Kingdom (The third degree of heaven) you have to do works and get married in the temple in this life, or else you’re done for. It is taught that everyone will have a chance for repentance and mercy in the next life. What you do in this life isn’t the end result, you will have a chance to learn and accept the gospel in the next life, and that choice affects where you end up.

I should also note that Jesus Christ is the center of the LDS faith, not Joseph Smith. We, as members of the church, do not believe Joseph Smith to be a perfect man or an angel whom we worship. We believe that through Christ, all mankind may be saved, in this life or the next.

Yul Submitted on 2015/02/09 at 1:59 am

You guys have too much hate.

Jesus Christ saves Submitted on 2015/02/07 at 8:50 am | In reply to soldier of christ.

Galatians 1:8 states “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!”